Azorean Gull

[Brian S]

Ian Lewington has kindly posted an image of a probable Azorean Gull (often treated as the subspecies atlantis of Yellow-legged Gull).

Any comments would be fun....

Brian S

[MichaelF]

Photo taken on the Azores I presume?

[Pipixcan]

Hi, a virtually identical bird to this was seen at Seaforth Nature Reserve, Merseyside between 30th October 2008 and 17th November 2008.It was photographed (albeit not as well as the Oxon bird) and published in Birding North West magazine (vol 5, no.11).Interestingly what was almost certainly the same bird was seen at Seaforth last week .On both occasions the primary moult was eye-catching as was the head streaking.Seaforth recently has had a small influx of Yellow-legged Gulls, with at least ten birds seen over the last week.

Cheers,P

[Brian S]

Photo taken on the Azores I presume?

No. If you check the image, it is in Oxfordshire.

Brian S

[JanJ]

Although on this image the atlantis head streaked look (and head structure of michahellis), is quite obvious. However, the bill looks a bit strange and judging from this image could well be an oddly patterned argentatus - I have seen a few such looking individuals quite similar to the one here. A good wing openar would be nice to see.

JanJ

[MichaelF]

No. If you check the image, it is in Oxfordshire.

Brian S

How do you get that??? All the image says is "attachmentid=2150&d=1254900840"

[Brian S]

Sorry Michael, this came off the stop press page http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery9

Scroll down and find the image labelled 'Azorean Gull' and read the details given by Ian.

Brian

[JanJ]

Now I saw the description of the wing - which sounds good enough. Moultscore is standard timing for Yellow-legged, with p6+7+8 vissible beyond the tertials - but also in many Herring's!

JanJ

[GoneBirding]

Hi all,

Some more photo's on the stop press pages today

http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery9

Interesting looking beast.... was going to go for it but car trouble seems to have intervened :cry:

Never mind.......

All the Best

Steph' H :lovegulls:

[Red-eyed Video]

The bill on this bird looks remarkably similar to to the Didcot gull.

Scroll down to August sightings at the bottom of the page;

http://www.freewebs.com/punkbirder/latestsightings.htm

[JanJ]

Interesting new pic. on the putative type atlantis gull, which probably is not strange looking Herring on pattern of primaries. On the available pic. the dark on the head looks quite extensivly uniform and not streaked dark as on atlantis, like this one:

http://www.pbase.com/dophoto/image/69213560

This Herring shows extensive head streaking in a way similar to atlantis but note the big blotches down on the necksides and upper breast:

http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/924524

Judging from the bill pattern the gull is not an adult but seems perhaps to be an advanced 3cy or 4cy bird. On the other hand the primary pattern is more adult like but with a tiny dark mark on the outer primary coverts
The dark subterminal mark on p5 is perhaps curiously narrow on the inner web. It also has a dark mark on the outer web on p4 but only on one wing.
This claimed atlantis (Madeira), linked below, shows a pattern on the primaries rather similar to the subject gull, note especially the shape of the dark mark in p5 and also a mark on p4
The point with showing thes examples is simply to say that primary pattern and the nr of black marked primaries doesn´t nessecarily differ from type michahellis and it´s not easy to draw a line between where michahellis and atlantis, so to speak, go in to oneanother.

http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/index.php?pic_id=Jniemi1157107045&lang=eng

It´s however, fully possible for a type atlantis/michahellis to reach Britain or some place else in western Europe.

I hope some more (sharper images turns up, soon!

JanJ

[j j]

JanJ

I am interested that you referred to a Madeiran Yellow-legged Gull as a claimed atlantis. I thought that birds on both Azores & Madeira were atlantis, but that those on Madeira do not develop head streaking. Have I got this wrong?

John

[JanJ]

Hi JJ.

My thoughts on the pic. I linked from Tarsiger of the YLG taken on Madeira, was that it is impossible to refer to that gull as atlantis from those pic. It could well be a michahellis for what I know. The ssp atlantis is restricted as a breeder to the Azores but the populations on Madeira and Canary Island is sometimes also called atlantis However, atlantis often differ from michahellis in shorer legs, shorter and heavier bill and darker upperparts (Kodak Grey Scale 7-9 for atlantis and 5-7 for michahellis).
Some YLG seen in Canary Islands are darker than the michahellis occurring there.
In winter when the full head streaking of atlantis - in many appearing as a hood -together with darker upperparts an fuller black wingtip making them quite distinctive. Some Madeiran and Canary Island birds (intermediates), develop a similar heavy streaked head but not as extreme as on atlantis. So a bird seen in summer plumage can be quite impossible to identify as to race since variation and the not yet fully understood knowledge and various opinions of the ssp of YLG has to be considered.
My going on with the subject Oxfordshire gull - is more of being on the other side of the fence, that is to say carefull before the right sharp images are there, since both Herring and some michahellis can show heavy headstreaking and that it seemed that the Oxfordshire gull had obvious uniformly dark head, or partly so, while atlantis is obviously streaked.
In some of the images it looks quite dark while paler in others.

From this image I would not be convinced of an atlantis

http://www.rarebirdalert.co.uk/RealData/RareGallery_ShowSpecies.asp?galleryid=4074&page=1&sort=4&pos=1&

While in this one it could well be a Herring with heavily streaked head and staring white eye:

http://www.rarebirdalert.co.uk/RealData/RareGallery_ShowSpecies.asp?galleryid=4073&page=1&sort=4&pos=2&

It´s important to note that I´m not disputing the identification of the Oxfordshire gull, how could I, having not seen it in real life, just making questions from seeing the images, which is not easy (as usual) to judge from.

JanJ

I

[Johnny X]

Can we agree that Azorean Yellow-legged Gull is a gash name?

I propose the traditional name "Duffy's Gull (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_from_Atlantis)" is resurrected.

[Josh Jones]

I'm half thinking of going down to have a look at this bird tomorrow, so any local knowledge would be appreciated here; do the gulls use the area on Sundays or do they magically disappear as they tend to in many areas?

Thanks
Josh

[mafting]

I'm half thinking of going down to have a look at this bird tomorrow, so any local knowledge would be appreciated here; do the gulls use the area on Sundays or do they magically disappear as they tend to in many areas?

Thanks
Josh

From the local yahoo group:

Today: "showing well on the pool by the Appleford level crossing at
least from 3pm until at least 4pm this afternoon."

Last weekend: "the large flock of birds was commuting between the Didcot
Landfill and the fields to the north of the B4016. Although there was no sign of
the Azorean all morning, it eventually appeared on the pool just NE of the
landfill and just SW of the level crossing at 1318 hours [Appleford?]. It was on view
for about three minutes before flying back towards the tip."

[JanJ]

Hi all.

Saw these images today:

http://www.birdingtoday.co.uk/oxfordshire_photo_gallery_70.html

Some of the better ones I´ve seen so far. In the first pic. The flatish back lacking any tertial step is very apparent.

JanJ

[Josh Jones]

From the local yahoo group:

Today: "showing well on the pool by the Appleford level crossing at
least from 3pm until at least 4pm this afternoon."

Last weekend: "the large flock of birds was commuting between the Didcot
Landfill and the fields to the north of the B4016. Although there was no sign of
the Azorean all morning, it eventually appeared on the pool just NE of the
landfill and just SW of the level crossing at 1318 hours [Appleford?]. It was on view
for about three minutes before flying back towards the tip."

Thanks for this.

J